Link to new Thomas Lang videos

[zmorton]

PP, great post.

[Andy Edwards]

i've done a few clinics with Thomas and I have sat and jammed with him too.

All I can say is he is an unbelievable musician and he really knows what he is doing!
He gives people what they want (His DVD is I think the biggest seller of that type ever and 3000 people turned up for his last UK tour)

When you are at one of his clinics the air of disbelief as he plays is tangible but when I've sat down and jammed with him he has played with taste and restraint.

Yes, he's not Omar or Vinnie but I remember the same being said about these drummers when the first emerged in the early eighties

Thomas, Marco and Virgil etc are setting new standards for drummers...they are the real deal.

[palmerlouie]

wow....dazzler. did u watch the other clips with the music? there are two other clips of him playing to songs.....i think they are ok. watch them and let me know what u think.....

bear in mind this is drum clinic material.....a drum clinic is a room full of drum nuts who pay their money and want to watch drum porn.....its specific material for a specific gig.

personally, i cant stand drummers who do clinics and just play 2&4 for 2 hrs....if thats what there about then dont do clinics.

the word "clinic" explains itself and is gonna equal a technical display. so i think thomas views a drum clinic as a TOTALLY different gig than one with a band or in the studio.......some drummers only adapt slightly and end up playing to a few old tracks......whereas i think thomas views it as just fooling around with drummers......

[cjbdrm]

"...a drum clinic is a room full of drum nuts who pay their money and want to watch drum porn.....its specific material for a specific gig.

personally, i cant stand drummers who do clinics and just play "2&4" for 2 hrs....if thats what there about then dont do clinics.

the word "clinic" explains itself and is gonna equal a technical display."


I respectfully disagree...to each his/her own. Personally, I would rather watch Omar Hakim or Vinnie play 2 & 4 for 2 hours than watch anyone blow for 2 hours. Not that Thomas does this, but...

I think a good clinic would include a nice mix of everything- technical demos/advice, business advice, soloing, playing along to tracks, etc. Too much of one thing would be boring...

[Schreck]

to dazzler from england, part of the united kingdom

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Dazzler:

A typical example of a drummer striving for technical excellence at the expense of dynamics, feeling and musicality.
I hate the idea (and one could argue that is a German attribute) that to be the best at anything,
you have to be regimented and machine like.

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HaHaHa, that's really funny, to read such thinks HERE.
O.K, I'am german.
but Thomas lang is not. He is Austrain.
And the most important thing is, that his GRANDFATHER was American. HaHaHa !

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Dazzler:

Just watched the clip and all I can say is that he may have the most ferocious technique,
but that was just appaling. No music, no groove, no feeling at all,
just Thomas playing as fast and as complicated as he can without thinking about his sound.

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I think, it's not very wise, to separate technical abilities and musicality.
Inspiration has nothing to do with technic perhaps.
but can you REALLY define, what is inspiration and what is just technic, practiced all day long ?


I'am not a fan of thomas. all I can say, is, he is getting better for me, because now, I can hear some RHYTHEM,
and not only practiced chops.
for example, his drum solo.
time: 1:03 exactly.
listen to his bass drum figure.
continue this bass drum pattern in your mind and NOW listen to the following parts.
it really makes sense.
perhaps you are not able, to follow him ?
listen to 2:32.
this is just cool.
3:32 until the end.
(I,am pretty soryy, that the video stops there.)
but what he is playing there, belongs to 2:32.

his playing is still very nervous, but wait some years.

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Dazzler:

That's what this example and others I've of Thomas demonstrates,
that he has spent countless hours in his practice room with the sole purpose of being fast, flashy,
technical and alsmost robot like with no thought to music or how it actually sounds.

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no, no, no.
you don't want to make me believe, that his solo for example is just a robot repitition, no ?
there are only a few bascx points in his solo, but between, it's just inspiration and improvisation.
I'am sure. Sorry, that we cannot ask him.
What makes me wonder, is, HOW strong you critize.

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Dazzler:

I get no feeling that he is considering a single note that he plays.
He shows a distinct lack of regard to dynamics

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yes, he plays with high speed at every time. to nervous.

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Dazzler:

and there was basically nothing happening in terms of a groove,

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but THIS is not true.
perhaps you can't follow him ?

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Dazzler:

form or development.

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but development is not all.
It makes me just wonder, why you don't want to recognize the good things.
he is really full of fire.

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Dazzler:

Solos that start out with cymbal flurries and then move on to the kit are old and hackneyed.
Buddy was doing that decades ago.

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what an argument ...

but in common, he don't reminds me on buddy, not 1 second.
and you are trying to ignore, that he's just ON FIRE in his solo.
Every few seconds new ideas.
listen to the basics, thomas set, and listen to the rest with the basics in your mind.
perhaps you understand.

and don't forget the american grandfather ;-)

[palmerlouie]

dunno what all that was about..... [img]graemlins/hmmm.gif[/img]

anyway, dont mean for this post to destroy dazzler and his comments.....this post ended up being more about clinics and what different people thought should be played etc....

didnt mean to shoot you down dazz.......

[Dazzler]

Louie - now worries mate, you didn't 'shoot me down', this forums is all about opinions and we're all sharing ours. That's the great thing, we can agree and disagree, I'm not offended in the slightest as our opinions are all valid.

Schreck, I take all your points too. It's not that I can't hear or am not able to figure out what he's doing in this solo, I just don't get the FEELING behind it. In terms of a drumming composition or piece mof music, I think that Thomas lacks taste, touch, feel and musicianship. For me it's all about his chops - Like a guy who shags like a porn star, concentrating on technique, speed and force as opposed to making love!! (For the reasons I gave - I don't wish to repeat myself.)

I'm gonna get slayed for that analogy for shure! Don't know where I got that from - sorry!!

Anyway.... It's all good, healthy debate. [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 05, 2005 06:22 AM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]</font>

[Schreck]

Hi Dazzler,

I'am interested in your feelings behind.
what kind of feelings do you get by listening to drummers,
and why do you get this feeling by listening to x and that feeling by listening to y ?
I'am asking this, because I'am really interested in the motivation, why people judge in different ways.
I cannot understand, why someone likes Donati und not Lang.
Even to compare weckl with lang und to say, weckl is o.k, lang not,
makes not really sense for me.
I like both. not so much lang, as I said, but this new clips are good.
what is it, that makes lang and weckl so different for you ?


I, for myself don't get any feelings out of drumming.
it's just rhythem.
rhythems can't make me happy or angry or sad.

[Gary Linieres]

To me this is all about credibility.........

If that was Vinnie or Hakim or Chambers in that clip....winking at the Camera and just making a lot of noise....it would make me smile.

Lang doesn't make me smile, he just makes me shake my head.

Why? Because the 3 guys I mention (and many others) have proved a hundred times in a hundred different situations that they can play music. That is what we are here for....I've never seen or heard Lang play anything that has pulled at my soul in a musical sense.

My analogy (everyone has gotta have one)is between that of a BodyBuilder and an athlete. One has muscles because they have developed them for a specific sport and because they needed them to be great at their sport. The other one just builds muscles....not for any purpose other than to have muscles. Pointless....unless your a muscle freak. I'm not.....others are... [img]graemlins/whatever.gif[/img]

[Dazzler]

Schreck, in answer to your question, I love drumming and drumnastics and I would be lying if I said that I wasn't impressed by technique, speed or flare. But what I'm concerned about and what really moves me is music and the role of a drummer in a band. If I may quote you:

I, for myself don't get any feelings out of drumming.
it's just rhythem.
rhythems can't make me happy or angry or sad.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's fair enough, but I don't believe you actually mean that. Surely when you hear a killing groove, it touches you in some way, it must do in order for it to make you happy, angry or sad.

Grooves really make me smile and phrasing too, but in the context of music. When a drummer phrases with the melody, uses space and plays off the other instruments, that's what gets me excited and much more than any drum solo or clinic.
I love chord changes and melodies and to hear a drummer really make a tune is everything to me. I'll use the example of that video that was posted hear a while back of Vinnie playing a country tune. He was behind his full set up of toms and cymbals and yet for the whole piece he played brushes on the snare with hi-hat and BD. He was serving the music and the other players.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people hear think I'm anti-technique and chops, I'm not and I get the horn just as much as the next guy when it comes to drummy stuff, but drumming alone doesn't do it for me, musicianship, taste, empathy and feeling do and theres no better way to demonstrate that than making music and reacting to other players. For that, one could argue that you need limited technique and BIG ears!

So to bring it back to Thomas, I appreciate that he's in a clinic situation and drummers have paid to see him 'do his thing' but it just leaves me cold. What is wrong with space and dynamics? He uses neither and for me, he's just trotting out a load of noisy licks and tricks that he's practiced time and time again with no attempt to create a meaningful or valid piece of music..... and for me, that hold more substance than any display of chops.

So with regard to the difference between Thomas doing his thang and say Weckl or Vinnie, I would say that the latter two have a definite sense of form and structure: I see where they are going with their ideas. The internal dynamics are always there as is their touch and feel on the instrument. They have a definite sense of shape to their playing and ideas and groove too.
All the clips I've seen of Thomas, it is all on one level - loud and relentless. It just doesn't breath and you need that in music. If someone shouted at you for 5 minutes, you would hate that and walk away. Whereas if a person used their voice, dynamically and took breaths and paused to listen and think, it would be a much more rewarding conversation and experience.

Just my thoughts. [img]smile.gif[/img]